0x6a024f52…80f4sent to0xf790a5f5…1365·#22,537,580·view on Etherscan
@0xae47...5Fed
> to debate the compensation is embarrassing
Debating comp is literally the main thing we do in governance rn. It will keep being contentious as long as there is no structured process, and there are no clear expectations.
I'd rather structure something, then iterate and improve on top of it, rather than having this discussion over and over again without ever moving the needle. We need to build rituals and processes that compound over time so that we can spend less energy debating the basics.
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> "Alternatively, we could host trait competitions "
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> It is not alternatively, we can do both if you guys are desperate to sink monkey into rounds that amount to nothing...
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> @volky
> that money to rounds didn't result in any trait props or anything onchain and cost the dao eth, what was the most memorable thing to happen as a result (rhetorical Q)
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> more focused efforts e.g. /noc ppl like nadie has resulted in him making 2 trait props costing dao 0 so far - that is **zero dollars** for clarity.
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> since 2023 ive run weekly call every tuesday morning -informal helping people propose and give help with art/design for nouns / lil nouns, been doin this.
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> Everyone can say they want to do this and that or are doing this and that working in "that direction", the clear difference is, we already did it, here is a prop - it is 1e, to debate the compensation is embarrassing.
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> Cheers
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> +1
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> > @0xae47...5Fed
> >
> > we've already compensated dozens of noundry artists via [rounds.wtf](https://rounds.wtf/noundry/noundry-themed-contest-1-landmarks-1), including Nadie.
> > I'd rather allocate more funds towards that to nurture the movement and recognize the work of all of them.
> >
> > I fully support compensating the artists. It should just be decoupled from adding traits.
> >
> > Trait props should be just about the artwork, so they can be judged only on that merit.
> >
> > By bundling comp with it, you introduce a confounder: it's not only about how good the trait is anymore, but also about how much people think said artist should be compensated, if it's too much or too little, if the artist is their friend, etc.
> >
> > Keep trait props simple, fun, meaningful. The landmark is less meaningful if it comes with a price tag imo
> >
> > > the old noundry events/props never got a single new person onchain to propose a head
> >
> > This is just a matter of establishing rituals, encouraging and supporting other artists. Let's make Noundry more lively, set up community calls, have a cadence.
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> > I'm working on something in that direction
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> > >
> > > you said: "I'm also against the comp in this fashion. Noundry is a process rather than specific deliverables, and if we only compensate people when their traits make it to the collection, we'll be favoring those that are more charismatic like you rather than evenly compensating everyone who's participating and keeping the movement diversified."
> > >
> > > from pov of sponsor (me): the old noundry events/props never got a single new person onchain to propose a head, we are all making pixel art everyday, this is just one community member (who has never been funded by nouns dao up until prop last week), think should focus on celebrating them.
> > >
> > > I like people having their own proposals, it adds more significance to an already significant event in their life and is a personal onchain landmark for them; and i like compensation for that reason too, artists shouldn't feel weird about asking for money - Nouns is a buyer of pixel art.
> > >
> > > Nadie has made 100s/1000s of traits, as have many others, and I look forward to welcoming/helping them all to propose and compensating everybody forever.
> > >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > > I don't think the aesthetic fits nicely with the rest of the collection. It's too cartoonish (in the Looney Tunes sense), while other traits are more minimalistic and simplify rather than exaggerate features.
> > > >
> > > > I'm also against the comp in this fashion. Noundry is a process rather than specific deliverables, and if we only compensate people when their traits make it to the collection, we'll be favoring those that are more charismatic like you rather than evenly compensating everyone who's participating and keeping the movement diversified.
> > > >
> > > > I would favor Noundry comp in a similar format to the [noc prop](https://www.nouns.camp/proposals/793). Give Noundry a budget and let multiple artists be a part of it.
> > > >
> > > > We could host periodic contests, have more collaborations to iterate on traits off-chain before proposing, make it more lively.
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> +1
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> > Generally not in favor of compensating trait submissions. That said, there may be rare cases where payment makes sense, like when a well-known artist contributes a trait that brings significant new attention to Nouns. Alternatively, we could host trait competitions with prizes, without guaranteeing that winning traits are added to the collection.
@0x560D...79E6
> artists must constantly fight for their work to be valued
this is exactly how it works now, and I'm proposing we figure something out to change that and to give artists a clear path to comp without relying solely on all or nothing props. I'm arguing for more stable comp for artists, that's all.
I appreciate Nadie's work, I want the DAO to support him, this is not personal.
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> It's okay if you "don't like" the trait, but I don't really get the aversion to compensating artists. A price tag doesn't diminish an artwork's artistic and cultural value. In many cases, its monetary value is the result of both.
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> Is the asking price too high? Well, we need to do price discovery like the daily auction, but consider that adding art to the collection is equally valuable to adding code to the protocol. I don't see anyone having a problem putting a price tag on that work.
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> I've said it before: yes, we must be strict on which traits we add, but exceptional traits deserve to be added and compensated.
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> Not compensating artists for their work sends a poor message and perpetuates the twisted reality that artists must constantly fight for their work to be valued.
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That being said, I fully acknowledge that I've been armchair criticizing the current model without there being a working alternative. Sorry about that.
I'll focus my energy on creating alternatives instead.