0x6fb5d14b…83b0sent to0x43fa3b63…1cea·#21,330,622·view on Etherscan
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submited by Peter on behalf of Bonfire
+1
> > staffing overheads
> > Wages at 55% of a budget this large feels off.
>
> Caught myself instinctively agreeing with this but want to take a moment to argue the other side.
>
> Camps budget is ~99% wages, which makes perfect sense for a software project. The goal for camp team is to pay our bills and write code, any large expenses outside of that (eg marketing, events, travel) would seem excessive and wasteful.
>
> Nouns.gg is not (purely) a software project, but the texture of the project still feels like a startup to me. The project founders are the most important variable in Nouns.gg, and without them putting in work every day the project will quickly die.
>
> What im trying to say here is that the staffing/salary line item _should_ be the biggest budget item, bc the people working on Nouns.gg are the most important factor for the projects' success.
>
> However, its possible that the team can downsize its group of founders/operators, or maybe some of them are in a position to take a leaner paycheck. Ive no insight there and Im not making a claim either way. Im only arguing that salaries being the primary expense should not be seen as odd or wrong.
+1
> I understand the concerns around past spending and sustainability. While I wouldn’t call previous proposals mistakes, the lessons we’ve learned along the way have led us here. I truly believe gaming offers us an opportunity to make a significant impact within Nouns.
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> +1
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> > I believe in backing world class Nounish teams building things that can grow Nouns while serving existing super fans.
> >
> > Nouns esports benefits the Nouns brand, community, and is creating nounish subculture funding innovations like Rounds.
>
> +1
>
> > I’m fully in support of continuing the Nouns Esports journey. As a more 'behind the scenes-work' member of the esports community I've seen many orgs come and go, I initially thought Nouns Esports was just another organization entering the space with cryptobacked partnerships and startup promotion intentions. When I jumped in to learn more I couldn’t have been more wrong. My curiosity about what Nouns Esports really had to offer led me to meet Ohan, Peter, and Sasquatch. They showed me that they really do have genuine passion and love for these games and their communities.
> > Esports communities can super vary across different games, but Nouns Esports has found meaningful ways to engage with and support those in spaces the spaces they've moved into. I've totally seen them uplift and empower the communities they’ve joined, like straight up first hand for real for real. I also was able to contribute to and become more involved with Nouns too! In 2024 I worked with Nouns Esports on photo, video, and media projects, and even won one of the Nouns Rounds! Nouns Rounds have been some of the most fun things around in the Smash community.
> > What makes keeping Nouns Esports alive so important is how much they’ve done for a community in the short time they've been around. Their team of people with passion, technical expertise and genuine care have brought invaluable support and positivity to the players and the communities around them. This dedication is why I think its super duper important to continue the this journey and I'm so excited for whats in store for 2025!
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> +1
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> > Nouns is becoming a household name in the Smash community. I think the ongoing effects of that are worth doubling down on.
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> +1
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> > @0x6fB5...83b0
> >
> > With over $3 million, 555 ETH, and a handful of Nouns invested into Esports in just over 2.5 years, it’s an eye-opening amount. We believe there are valid arguments on both sides regarding the ROI for the DAO. However, our concern is sustainability and this current model is not. With staff wages making up 55% of this budget, there may be room for cuts to help move closer to that goal. We have no doubt you agree with Krel for obvious reasons.
> >
> > > @0x15BC...2781
> > >
> > > Thank you for the feedback. I also agree with Krel that employee salaries and contributor compensation should be prioritized as the highest budget items. Without the full-time dedication of this group, much of what this proposal aims to achieve would simply not be possible.
> > >
> > > Why is spending money on esports "a hard pill to swallow"? Esports has brought significant awareness to Nouns and attracted new contributors. As far as I know, the DAO isn’t structured like a VC firm funding profit-seeking projects. Instead, this is an investment in marketing and community engagement to extend the reach and impact of the Nouns ecosystem.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > We commend the team and players for the inroads they've made thus far, but we are not sold.
> > > >
> > > > The amount of money this DAO has invested into the Esports scene to date is indeed a hard pill to swallow, and it's clear this approach is not a sustainable model for the DAO in its current state. When staff publicly say, "when the money is gone the ⌐◨-◨ will go," we are not filled with confidence for the future.
> > > >
> > > > Wages at 55% of a budget this large feels off.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > > > staffing overheads
> > > > > Wages at 55% of a budget this large feels off.
> > > >
> > > > Caught myself instinctively agreeing with this but want to take a moment to argue the other side.
> > > >
> > > > Camps budget is ~99% wages, which makes perfect sense for a software project. The goal for camp team is to pay our bills and write code, any large expenses outside of that (eg marketing, events, travel) would seem excessive and wasteful.
> > > >
> > > > Nouns.gg is not (purely) a software project, but the texture of the project still feels like a startup to me. The project founders are the most important variable in Nouns.gg, and without them putting in work every day the project will quickly die.
> > > >
> > > > What im trying to say here is that the staffing/salary line item _should_ be the biggest budget item, bc the people working on Nouns.gg are the most important factor for the projects' success.
> > > >
> > > > However, its possible that the team can downsize its group of founders/operators, or maybe some of them are in a position to take a leaner paycheck. Ive no insight there and Im not making a claim either way. Im only arguing that salaries being the primary expense should not be seen as odd or wrong.
> >
> > We most definitely do believe there is a place for Nouns Esports in the DAO. We are only suggesting a rethink to extend the lifespan.
+1
> one way of looking at this prop is that it's trying its best to adopt to nouns' treasury and the learnings of the nouns esports org over the years. we spent $2M on nouns esports in 2024. we ran two fairly expensive professional esports teams in dota and counter strike and while they were both valiant efforts they didn't get to a level of success where tournament winnings, in-game sales, or sponsorships generated enough income to sustain them (i consider the $250k sponsorship from matcha an impressive bit of revenue but it falls way short of the $2M spend). if they came back with a $2M budget (or $1.8M budget assuming sponsorship can continue) would we have been willing to run it back for 2025? it would have been about 14% of our total treasury (instead of 6% with this prop) and 56% of our 1Y inflow projection (instead of 24%). i haven't had the chance to catch up with the team since nounsfest in LA when they hadn't finalized some of the decisions here so i don't know exactly the thinking that went into this shift in the prop but i imagine their guess was that the $2M prop would fail. i suspect that guess isn't wrong since it just is objectively hard for us to keep funding the same dollar amount prop when the auction revenue is much lower and the prop itself can't achieve more revenue on its own over time. another aspect of thinking that likely went into the prop (which i did have the chance to hear from sam / peter / sasquatch at nounsfest) is just the feeling that the nouns esports model might work better for a more grassroots community like smash than for a professionalized esports league like dota or CS where competing teams are being funded by different financial incentives (e.g. saudi wanting an esports league in their country and can pour in money to top teams) that we can't quite compete with. they want to double down in the more real and genuine engagement they can find in more niche communities like smash and onboard them to onchain tools and unique community distribution they are building. so in some meaningful ways the above make sense and is a good adoption (cutting budget by 60%. narrowing focus to what they think is better/unique engagement).
>
> i think the other side is like the prior year's bet (2024 prop) was more like a high risk / high return bet. there was a chance the teams could win big in these professional leagues where prizes are meaningful. in those contexts of winning big more sponsorships could have been possible too. there was a chance auction revenue could have kept being where it was or could have moved much higher too. my point here is that it was a different type of bet (could a nouns dota / cs team against all odds win big and shock the world? it already did the prior year by the dota team making 7th place in the international. it felt right to see if with another year the team could go even further). this prop is a different prop. it's not going for winning in pro leagues or getting big sponsorships. it's more like smash is an incredible esports subculture that nouns can tap into and nouns should fund us to do that. i like the idea but does the spend feel proportional to the smash subculture's weight and importance in the overall nouns network? if nouns was a country would it choose to spend 25% of its yearly tax income in supporting the smash community's gaming tournaments? it's not an obvious yes to me.
>
> and yet i'm choosing to vote yes here. i think amongst the nouns teams, esports has likely come the furthest. it swung for one of the biggest goals with the largest viewership. got the largest sponsorship. has a team that worked together for a decently long time now with its own sense of purpose and mission. built its own tools and community engagement mechanics tailored for its community. has a strong sense of its own branding. its not big enough to survive on its own but i do think there's seeds of something unique here. ultimately, we need to figure our how to grow auction revenue independent of this one spending. in the mean time 6% of treasury is something i can stomach. i don't think we should lose the esports team chasing down the idea maze here at this point. against the things we have in our opportunity set i feel good about betting on this team again and seeing where they can take us in 2025 (and seeing how far nouns itself can grow in the next year as well).