(noun40 voting via agora)
thanks for the prop brett! love you taking the first swing so that props like this can be more normalized. voting abstain since i love the attempt but feel pretty aligned to coral orca’s vwr in that cohesion with the existing art is very important
(noun40 voting via agora)
pizza dao has been consistent in their engagement with nouns and love for pizza and spreading positive crypto culture to more ppl so i’m supportive of funding again this year! a few minor prop writing nits from me is that when a prop is a recurring prop (in this case it’s annual) i would hope for a heavier retrospective on the execution of the previous year’s prop specifically not just a general overview of pizza dao’s past activities. also when funding ask goes up (it seems like around 65% increase this time) i would specifically call out what parts of the budget is changing / growing and how that is reflective of the previous year’s learnings. i would also definitely steer away from meme number funding amounts since it can be an anti-signal in the seriousness or thoughtfulness of the prop (appearing that you chose a funding amount bc it was memeable rather than bc that was the amount needed). voting FOR since i think this prop is still very much in good faith and the pizza dao energy is nounish but something to keep in mind for next year!
(noun40 voting via agora)
ugh this is a tough one but voting against. i'm not against nouns funding charitable projects (for example a recent example is nouns funding rebuilding of a community school in uganda: https://www.nouns.camp/proposals/477). but i like prop 477 b/c it feels a lot more grassroots and organic. in that case, davin the proposer is a long time nouns fan and community member, the school is the school davin himself went to, and he's going to be involved in the rebuilding of it directly. with this prop, brennen and pat are the nouns liasons, rachel is the proposer effectively it seems who knows sarah, sarah culberson is kind of the brand name spokes person, and her foundation will be doing the actual work. it just feels all too intermediated and not really a direct relationship to the thing that's happening. in some ways it feels like more just traditional charity work where a noteworthy person raises funding via their reputation. while this is a good cause, i don't think this this is a case where we can uniquely be a funder for the intended work or a funding story that is noteworthy that will spread the story of nouns. really appreciate rachel and brennen/pat for bringing this prop to nouns but voting against for the reasons above.
(noun40 voting via agora)
very supportive of small funding props like this where long time nouns fans / nouners bring nouns into a nounish thing that they are independently doing. silly hacks sounds incredibly nounish and happy for nouns to play a small part.
(noun40 voting via agora)
i'm actually a fan of this prop! had no context on ATX DAO so i've been ramping up for the past hour reading stuff but i fundamentally really like the hyper local community centric use case of a nouns dao format
i also think the DNA auction mechanism makes sense in this context (could we give it a more intuitive descriptive name? small gripe with names that are not illustrative of the thing it is trying to reference). ATX DAO is willing to let go of financial upside for the membership NFTs (since if price goes up issuance rate will also go up to match the demand) so this type of model works. as a non profit DAO that's not oriented around maintaining a defined supply scarcity, this could work well.
i totally hear what krel is saying. the main disagreement i have with krel's view is that i think the main "offer" here by ATX DAO is not really the development of the DNA mechanism or any of the ATX DAO events in particular but rather chosing to migrate their membership NFT to be nouns infused forever and to be named "ATX Nouns" (a piece of feedback from me on this front is that we should consider using the text "ATX Nouns" in the actual NFT art rather than the current "ATX DAO" or some other way to make the nounification more prominent than the current design). I think that's a pretty big commitment. for an NFT-based membership DAO community to be willing to permanently fuse their NFT art with nouns. it's a merger of sorts and in this context it makes sense that the ask is a lump sum upfront commitment rather than a small test check and something more gradual. they are prepared to take a big permanent leap and asking nouns if we'd take that with them.
a non profit dao that has this amount of history and economic and community energy on its own already is pretty rare (most things in crypto are fueled by the prospect of making money so something entirely community and art oriented that has this amount of continuity and forward motion feels impressive to me). i'm down for nouns to take this leap and financially support this effort while merging nouns IP into ATX DAO's membership NFTs forever.
(noun40 voting via agora)
i'm a bit on the other side of L2 voting migration being a high priority. my thinking:
- we're spending around ~18 eth a year on voter gas refunds. it's not a trivial cost (and for daos with smaller treasuries it makes total sense to move to an L2) but as a L1 "peace of mind" tax for now it's not something too much for the dao to bear.
- we're likely NOT going to move our treasury governance contracts entirely to L2 any time soon given the L2s still have decentralization stuff that's not really sorted out (fraud proofs etc).
- then any scheme here at the present moment would likely require some sort of L2 voting & ZK proof generation -> L1 ZK proof verification? tech here is improving rapidly but really a lot of is in flux in terms of how L2 -> L1 state communication should happen in the most trustless fashion.
all of the above leads me to think that we should just pay the ~18 eth cost for another year or two until thing settle down rather than spending a lot of cycles here now.
(ofc the other side of the argument is that we should lead here as a way to stay on the frontier and push the boundaries and run a mandated round as a way to attract more technical talent towards our ecosystem. if that's the argument i would be much more supportive and it's a totally different value proposition. but the "we're wasting eth refunding voter gas" as a cost savings value prop is not compelling to me given the non obvious technical complexity at the present moment)
(noun40 voting via agora)
reasonable ask from a long time nouns fan and builder. i like this iteration of the prop A LOT. the two dashboards seem very valuable to me if done well and given joel understands the nouns details very well i feel like there's a good chance that it really will turn out to be something that helps governance decisions.
on the treasury dashboard I would really focus on answering questions like "what are we spending on?" (a list of top eth/usdc prop spending targets grouped by same team so like esports, nouns movie, etc; also allowing me to filter by last 12 mo or by year) and "how much spending are we committed to if we continue funding existing teams?" (this requires manual judgement but imo that's okay and actually necessary to make a good dashboard; obviously we'd likely continue to fund the nouns movie to completion, other efforts/teams like esports, verbs, nounish, etc anyone that we've funded more than once and in size should be factored in) then finally blend that with the auction & mint revenue component to show how much more we're spending than we're bringing in. we're still in a mode where bv > auction price so i don't think spending more than we're bringing in is a problem but it would be good to have a clearer view on how much we'd need to increase revenue or bring down our spending to reach sustainability over time.
(noun40 voting via agora)
went back and forth a bit but landed on voting FOR. i generally don't like sponsorships (e.g. conference sponsorships) b/c those usually feel ephemeral and the impressions we get are low value since the attendees/viewers often have low context. i was originally looking at the prop through that lens feeling a little skeptical but after reading the part around the noggles sculpture being placed right next to the 5ft tall HOPE OUTDOOR GALLERY sign I started to feel like maybe this is closer to the Rusutsu prop (prop 218) which i really like. permanent and prominently placed noggles sculptures at the right locations can be interesting schelling points. ofc that prop was $200k and this is asking for $950k, but this is a non profit art park that needs funding (which i'm more partial towards like the stakepark restoration stuff we've funded in the past) and this also has the added potential to double as a nounish IRL gathering spot which is another thing I like (similar to the LA coffee shop, i think IRL gathering spots are good to complement all the online gathering we always do). ofc this isn't just a nouns-branding-only space so things are more complicated and there's less guarantees that it all shakes out in a way that feels fair to nouns BUT on that dimension i just have high trust with brennen. he not only has been an incredible nouner this whole time (through the fork and all) but also has selflessly poured his heart into helping nouns esports achieve the success it has. knowing he'll be on the ground and close to the project i have high faith some really nounish branding will be put in place (and other events, merch, etc). also austin is a pretty cool spot in general as place that art and tech intersects and i'm happy for nouns to put down some roots in that city. excited to see this come to life! go brennen!
(noun40 voting via agora)
incredibly proud of the work and how this all came together. a film that nouns independently decided to fund b/c there was an amazing opportunity to work with a world class animation studio became THE film / onchain artifact to celebrate EIP 4844 across core devs & all L2s. feels like a cultural accomplishment that nouns is uniquely suited to deliver and that we should feel proud of. the film is also just so beautiful i love it so much! minting minting
(noun40 voting via agora)
lol at the "on-chain" police out here. love this so much diid! one of the main internal motivations for me to get nouns to work and scale is to fund exactly open source devs like you who currently don't have great funding sources (you're not going to raise vc for this library but it's hard to get grants somewhere else either without a ton of bureaucracy or compromise). anyways, i love it! keep crushing it out there
(noun40 voting via agora)
I think we're splitting hairs here a bit. mandated prop house round have historically been super high ROI in terms of eth spent vs the quality of teams we get to being involved in our nouns world. but we've had a hard time doing more of them b/c in reality what's much rarer than the eth spent on mandated rounds is the consensus idea for which to run a round and attract outside attention in the first place. it's opportunities like nouns x faracaster that's rare. not $150k or $300k. ofc that doesn't mean that we should spend recklessly at any amount but i think any top 3 team that's seriously going to commit building out a nouns farcaster client likely has a opportunity cost higher than $100k. we're just making it a little easier financially and demonstrating with a bit more commitment that we really care about this. we put out the bat signal with a $150k commitment and if seneca is telling us that the signals on the ground is strong enough that we should just make it $300k and double down then i feel like it's a no brainer. again what's rare imo is schelling points like this rather than eth. nouns progress has never been limited by our treasury eth and always been limited by consensus fuck yeah directions to push and fund. farcaster is a clear one of those imo and we should push hard to explore what's possible.
(noun40 voting via agora)
very excited for client incentives! one way to think about nouns is as its own onchain world. that world has its own public infra that it depends upon. the nouns "clients" that allow for governance (proposals & votes) and auction bidding are some of those foundational things. historically we've funded these things on a series of yes/no prop decisions (like everything else). this is an experiment to see if we can do better. in this brave new world it's easier to track and verify *usage*. it allows us to decide on the budget we want to spend and let the market competition emerge around those public utilities. it's like if you allowed anyone to provide public transportation (e.g. buses) and the gov paid for verified usage! we don't yet know if this will be able to replace funding client teams entirely (likely should start as a incentive for good performance rather than an out right replacement of total funding) but it allows us to move in a new direction and experiment. if this works out it has the incredible promise of reducing governance burden (don't have to evaluate funding on a per team basis but rather a per category basis) and increasing market competition. excited for this! thank you to the verbs team for the hard work here.
(noun40 voting via agora)
appreciate the effort put into the prop. kendamas sound fun and the foundation seems to be doing great work with kids. but i generally feel similarly with the other against votes. i don't quite know if there's understanding and excitement about nouns on the sweets kendamas for our donation to be recognized or amplified in the kendamas community outside of just the dollar amount funded. also a lot of the other stuff like the nouns themed kendamas meant to be claimed by nouns holders (or given out to nouns community) or the prop house rounds for design and tricks etc are all internally focused but i don't know if there's really demand within the nouns community for it? doesn't seem that useful to spend money and attention in that direction (not that the nouns community shouldn't like kendamas per se but we don't already have that hobby).
(noun40 voting via agora)
had some time to think about this. i had this tweet and thread convo (https://twitter.com/hongkim__/status/1647654864858808321) about "mintReason" and wanting to give a way for our buyers to express why they bought a noun onchain. even then there was a view that bidWithReason is easier to do and might just fit the natural UX better b/c you have the attention of the bidder at the moment of bid rather than like a wall they can come back to to write something.
the concern with the bidWithReason view was that it wouldn't really lead to ppl writing substantial things b/c they don't even know if they are going to win. so it might lead to a playful bid comment as a in the moment type action but not really something that explains the WHY of why the person bought the noun.
looking at the result of bidWithReason having been launched in lil nouns i think most of that concern is true. there are mostly no comments or really short playful comments but the intended "capture useful information" goal that's expressed in this prop doesn't seem to have happened. also the way the comment is displayed in the UI wouldn't be conducive for anything more than a short comment.
if the goal here is to create space for a auction winner to say something meaningful that we can all give attention to (similar to propdates in a way) then i think we'd be better off with creating a UX where the winner (or just holder since someone can later buy at secondary too) can write something to the nouns world. gov clients like camp can show it on the activity page to give it attention. we could built sites that just show this information too. ofc the winner / buyer can just come say hi to the nouns farcaster channel which often does happen but increasingly as that space gets crowded a completely new user might not be able to say something that doesn't get filtered out by algos so having a onchain space does feel good to me. anyhow, i'm feeling that this doesn't really solve our need here.
(noun40 voting via agora)
i don't think these one off props (given they are used conservatively with a high bar) undermines the validity of the prop house round driven nouns retro that I agree should be the bulk of our distributions.
chris and purple has done so much in bridging nouns to the farcaster community and more and in general is an incredibly nounish human that i wholeheartedly support this prop! thanks for your service chris
(noun40 voting via agora)
the history of nouns public communication has been a journey of migrating from offchain / centralized things that doesn't serve us well (discord failed b/c moderation started becoming controversial when there's a single official space; twitter failed b/c it's hard for new members of the community to be heard and in general the posts to not be drowned out by everything else; discourse was in general a shit show) to now most entirely on onchain vote reasons / signal feedback viewed on camp and farcaster nouns channel.
it's just so abundantly clear that for an onchain community like nouns there's so much advantages of being on farcaster (e.g. it's easier to grow a mint economy when you can 1-tap mint straight from the social communication platform everyone is already on). also all the public communications tied to the address / fid allows for further emergent identity to be built such that we can leverage it for sybil resistance and getting better onchain understanding of our fanbase etc.
anyhow, i'm super supportive of us investing in the public communication infrastructure that is winning out and proving to be where our community is continuing to just be at. this mandated round prop is such a welcome step in that direction.
there are two nouns farcaster clients that i'm dying to see:
1. warpcast quality mobile app that allows for algos to be plug-and-play: one of the PRIMARY ways that i think decentralized social can be liberating is if the algos can be community built and user selected. the whole world living in one algo on X is so suffocating but X as a company has their own business incentives to not let users take control of their own attention. we need communities to be able to build algos that are suited for them and users to pick what works for them. i understand that buliding a great algo would be its own big project (potentially own company sized task) but we'd be happy to fund nouns algo building as a separate round in the future as well.
2. reddit like client that focuses on more sticky discovery and long form conversation: casts have character limits that limit someone to raise a long form governance topic and also casts are so ephemeral things get lost too easily. nouns channel i feel works well for ppl that are visiting it multiple times a day but doesn't work particularly well for someone that visits it once a day or once every few days. need a place to be able to find the popular content and good long form discussions that are happening over a longer arc.
(noun40 voting via agora)
ugh, i'm sorry i wasn't able to provide any feedback on this direction while it was in the candidate stage or discussion on farcaster stage. i'm very much on the same boat as wilson.
i think there's this view that only if we had used streams we'd have saved a lot of eth from grifts etc but i don't share that view. if it was then we would have built the voter social norm of shooting down props that don't use streams. the primary defense mechanism against props that might be scams have been to be very skeptical of props that are first time builders immediately asking for large sums of eth and asking to divide things into milestone and evaluate execution and alignment over a duration of time. we only scale in to a project when we have confidence that the bulider understands our culture & values and has a track record of delivering.
so i think this is a bit over engineering for a problem that might not exist or we might not have the consensus on. if we think streams is really an important norm we should build then we could easily enforce that if voters were convinced that that is a priority and if the standard streams we have right now doesn't cut it for some reason then we can think about adding different stream strategies or propdate requirements etc but personally as a voter i'm not convinced of the problem nor propdate required streams as the solution.
if we've come to this place from a perspective of like how can we get more props to use propdates then i wonder if we should put a carrot on it instead. more ppl will write propdates if more ppl read them and they have consequence. i've long felt that we should have some sort of quarterly nouns award for best props voted on (https://www.nouns.camp/candidates/nouns-retro-awards-ae65e700f3f8904ac1007d47a5309dd26f8146c0) and if having new propdates that quarter is a requirement to be entered into the pool of eligible props and that they become the basic information the voters read through to assess impact before casting their retro award votes that might be a positive reason for props to use propdates more and voters to read them more.
(noun40 voting via agora)
i don't see a material difference between this prop and the previous prop (same $250k budget ask for roughly the same initiative) and am voting against for the same reason. from my perspective most of the no voters last time felt that the while nouns berries could compete in the charitable spending that nouns does, going from 0 to $250k in one go was a stretch. we like to see a project delivered in smaller milestones over time and continuously evaluate whether there's a good fit between the project and nouns. it's totally fine for the proposer to say that that's just not possible here b/c the project cannot be split into smaller steps or the proposer doesn't want to and would rather go for other funding sources but then i think it's natural to expect the same voting outcome from nouns.
also i don't want to be sound pedantic here but i feel the need to reiterate that "make food a public good" does not make sense to me. this also bothered me on the coffee shop prop as well since there was a line about making coffee a public good by giving out free coffee at noun o clock. giving a private good (something that definitionally one person can consume) out for free does not make it a public good if you're trying to use the term "public good" in its economic definition (non-excluable & non-rivalrous; essentially a good that can meet an unbounded demand without limits or restrictions). you can say that it's good for the public to subsidize food production or that it's good to offer food to the public for free but making food a public good is definitionally not possible.
the reason i'm going hard on this point is that i feel my tweet about nouns having an orientation of trying to increase public goods production in this world is being used as a means to build a narrative around this prop (it's added as a screenshot). i also wrote about this point in my last vwr and it's still up on the body of the prop with wag's justification that i'm quibbling with semantics b/c everything has maintenance cost. this is not true. if an animation is made and released as cc0 (e.g. the wizard's hat) it can be enjoyed by an infinite amount of people forever at no maintenance cost. an open source software repository might require maintenance over time but at least at the moment of launch it is a true public good (an infinite amount of ppl can use it for free without restriction or competition). nouns has the aspiration to create a society where public goods are abundant b/c that's truly attainable at scale in the online/onchain world and there's a reason our funding budget has been leaning towards media > software > other things. arguing that this prop is trying to make food a public good and that nouns should fund it b/c nouns funds public goods represents either a misunderstanding of the concept or a intentional misleading or blurring of the lines that feels non productive to me.
(noun40 voting via agora)
this feels very thoughtful and well aligned culturally with nouns (not a surprise given the team behind it!). i feel like this type of IRL event is getting better and better over the years and we're becoming more cost effective at it as well. kudos on the prop and excited to see how it turns out!
(chocolate bar sales going to the tornado cash devs legal defense fund is also a great touch)
(noun40 voting via agora)
gave a fair amount of thought here and reached out to necfas for more discussion as well. one budget interpretation detail that wasn't clear from the prop was that 40% of the content creation budget (so 24% of overall) is going into the "action budget" which is the budget for the good deed they will shoot for the content). so while this budget not might be as exactly impact oriented since it can involve some mr beast like stunt dynamics, still i think the money that's spent for a charitable cause in this prop is closer to roughly half (25% + 24%) than the quarter that i originally thought after reading.
i do think this is meaningful jump in budget. last 6 mo prop was 159k. this one is 422k, so that's about a 2.6x increase.
i struggled with the decision but ultimately deciding to vote FOR. first off, i think the fact that in my view necfas and much has always went above and beyond and over delivered on prop execution over the past 2 years holds weight with me. last prop's deliverables didn't include millions of views on ticktok and instagram. they just found the right angle that could resonate with the 30 day challenge and took a bet and committed to it and achieved it all with a scrappy budget. my general principle in followup props is to be more open minded with prop builders that have over delivered in prior props.
also a more nounish mr beast like charity media enterprise (less pure stunt-y and more actual good but still viral enough to be sustainable) has always been something i've hoped nouns could produce as one of the things we export to the world. it makes sense that we would meaningfully subsidize it at the beginning if we want to see this experiment play out and mucho is by and far the best candidate exploring this charity media angle in our 2+ year history of nousn. mucho is already getting millions of views on their content on both tiktok and instagram with tight budget and i'm excited to see what they can do with more. make us proud!
(noun40 voting via agora)
i'm a little unsure about how i feel re: large nouns signage being built out in forest parks (personally i would find it pretty intrusive if a crypto brand placed their logo prominently in local parks in california). also given that the resting area already exists i guess the "funding public infrastructure" side of the prop is mostly around the benches being installed? didn't have enough conviction to vote against... so abstaining
(noun40 voting via agora)
seems like a solid program brought forth by folks that care deeply about nouns culture. i think this prop house round winning based slow token distribution approach is still really underrated and should be utilized / explored more. excited to follow what comes out of this!
(noun40 voting via agora)
a well maintained onchain contributor/fan database + a platform for subjective attestations are the foundation we need to build a sybil resistant identity system within nouns. we NEED to get out of a world where nouners/delegates are needed to vote on everything. we should have the whole nouns citizen base ("true fans" "nouns folk" or whatever we call this group of ppl that really care about nouns beyond their financial incentive) to vote on things. we can start small (like micro grants), but we can't let anyone vote. we also can't let a trivially fakeable set of ppl to vote. nouns karma's work is the foundation for that type of development.
what i would ask from the proposer is to not just build the onchain database and attestation system hope someone uses it. you should be ACTIVELY looking to make it used for an economic system of consequence within nouns. specifically i think you should provide a set of addresses that you think are sybil-resistant for different use cases.
(you mentioned nouns.zone but i don't know spam is really an issue on farcaster these days since the warpcast team improved the system)
two use cases i see are:
1. bound is trying to get a prize pool going (the initial prop failed but i hope we can get another one up soon; growing the nouns minting economy is important!). if the prize pool emerges then there will start to be attempts to juice the mint numbers to win more of the prize pool. if you could provide a sybil resistant set of addresses here to help count mints by true fans rather than bots for the purpose of the prize pool distribution calculation then i would consider that a meaningful use of nouns karma's work.
2. you could talk to seneca (for advice) to see if we can get some sort of infinite round or regular round for small grants going that again true fans vote for rather than nouners/delegates. this would be a big win since we haven't had a nouns funding mechanism voted on by nouns fans rather than nouners and if it works it could really help make nouns more democratic and scale governance further as well.
if something like #1 or #2 materializes in the next 4 months i would consider this prop a success and be willing to continue to fund. if it doesn't and nouns karma is a thing that exists but isn't used to support any type of economic system of consequence within the nouns world after 4 months then i would likely not. just a note for the proposer is that nouns is at times hard to navigate b/c it's headless. there's no company or foundation that you can talk to. that's what makes it both hard but also special! hope you can find your way around this world and make nouns karma the foundation of important economic systems within our world.
(noun40 voting via agora)
I feel like ppl aren't really appreciating the BIG difference that V3 has from V2. dwiss is fronting the $100k production cost of the 1000 units now. the main issue i had with V2 was that it didn't feel like the producer was taking any financial risk and we weren't sure if the units would sell. I'm happy to subsidize $100 per nouns branded watch that someone actually pays $139 to buy and wear. the main question for me was always whether this thing would sell and the fact that we would just pay for the production of 1000 units upfront felt potentially wasteful and not incentive compatible with the producer. in V3 dwiss is risking $100k of their own money to make these and if they don't actually sell 500 units at a minimum they get zero of our subsidy funding (they need to sell out 1000 units for the second tranche). that's a substantial amount of financial risk and is dwiss demonstrating that they actually believe what they are purporting (that they can sell these 1000 units to ppl that will pay $139 for them each). i think this is a significant improvement from V2 and if dwiss truly thinks they can sell these to watch lovers and are taking essentially as much financial risk as we're funding here for the marketing and such then i say let's take the risk and see how this goes! i was skeptical but i'd be happy to be proven wrong and i also love chris carella's vwr. i might not wear this watch every day (since I don't where watches) but i might put it on when i go to crypto events like eth denver and have it as a potential conversation starter. that sound fun and i'll be buying one. looking forward to seeing these sold rafael and fabio!
(noun40 voting via agora)
i'm always a bit wary of money from wealthier individuals / countries dropping into a culture it doesn't deeply understand and creating externalities but i'm very heartened by the fact that in this case this is the school that davin (the proposer) went to. trust that davin will do both the local community and nouns justice managing the project in a way that creates something long term positive and meaningful for the community (and not too tacky shoving the nouns brand down ppl) while having a positive attention and provenance generating relationship with nouns as well.
i'm also always a bit wary of physical infra projects since while it might be doing good for the public (doesn't charge for access) it can can have physical barriers that limit access (hard to reach or limited capacity). that's why my baseline preference is for digital public goods (for example open source software, but art is even better at times b/c it doesn't even have maintenance costs).
but in this case the ROI seems high (a relatively small budget can rebuild a school and change the educational lives for hundreds of kids for years to come) and the narrative story is also strong (davin who has been an avid nouns and gnars fan for years goes back to home town to give back leveraging nouns) that i feel compelled to vote yes.
thanks for being a deep fan and believer of nouns davin. make us proud!
(noun40 voting via agora)
i’m a little unsure of $NOGS tbh since i feel a bit weird about the dao endorsing any type of fungible token… and i’m also still not entirely sure about NNS as a long term concept. but definitely appreciate the change here where most of the protocol fees are shared amongst the community (economically makes NNS much more of a public good even if the controls and ops are still largely centralized) and ended up feeling net net worth supporting the experiment here (esp since ppl seem to like to use their dot NNS name).
(noun40 voting via agora)
love the attention to detail and visual style / brand this team is building and love the idea and execution of vines. however similarly to jesse’s vwr would be expecting to see larger scale impact / distribution by the next prop for continued funding at this scale!
(noun40 voting via agora)
endaoment is the primer team working on moving charitable giving onchain and the fact that we can donate via an onchain stream to a pool that provides quadratic matching funding to ALL donations happening through the platform is wild and really highlights the potential for acceleration of good that a world built onchain can make and feel super excited and grateful to support this prop!
(noun40 voting via agora)
joel has been one of the best and longest standing community members we have and as an independent matter i would vote to retro a noun towards joel in a heartbeat for all he's done (e.g. short shorts, leading nouncil for so long) but i've consistently struggled with funding nerman at this scale. outside of the discord bots (which i admittedly have less exposure to these days b/c i don't use discord for nouns stuff much at all now post farcaster) i don't know if there's much evidence of usage of the nerman.js SDK. i think this is partly b/c onchain smart contracts like propdates are by themselves APIs? camp can digest and display directly without another SDK layer. all of the nouns gov clients read and write to the nouns dao smart contracts again without an SDK. so there are plans here to keep going down the path of being comprehensive (e.g. support all the write functions) but the reality is that nouns clients are already interacting with / writing to the smart contracts directly. so then there could be some net new developer that is not engaging with nouns b/c of the hurdle of interacting with our smart contracts and could be invited to do so with the JS SDK but idk. with software i'm a bit skeptical of large spends on things that don't have traction and usage in the present. again love love joel and all he's done for nouns but i'm struggling to vote for this prop.
(noun40 voting via agora)
we've been with prop house for a while but somehow i feel like 2024 will be the year we really learn how to leverage prop house to the MAX.
i'm excited for:
- ph rounds as onchain props (no longer need to work with seneca to set up a ph round) leading to many many more mandated rounds being championed by various community members
- scaling nouns garden: representative (gardener) voting has been great for voter participation (my impression is that most gardeners are diligently voting) and no whale dominance (everyone has the same 10 votes). there's still some issues with too much concentrated voting (b/c you're kind of incentivized to back one horse to the max). i think we need quadratic voting (voting power decreases quadratically if you vote for the same prop again and again). anyways, i think it's still pretty good (it's workable as is and can be improved) and hopefully we can channel more funding through it.
- figuring out some larger onchain "true fan" voter base 10x larger than the gardener base (>250) that could potentially administer a micro (< 0.5 eth) retroactive grants or small grants type thing
- custom built UIs for different prop houses: garden should have its own UI. nouns amigos should have its own UI. same for nouner scout. etc etc. prop house UX could be 10x better once we can specifically customize and PH being onchain now opens this door which i feel very excited about.
anyways, this is all to say that i'm very excited for prop house 2024!! props to soli and seneca for doubling down for another year
(noun40 voting via agora)
> Every prop winner gets an AMIGO token. This token has voting rights to decide who gets awarded every round, giving the community decision-making power.
i think this prop house driven "proof of work" (winning a PH round is not easy) as the distribution mechanism of a community token is really underrated and kudos to nouns amigos team for leaning into it at the beginning of the year and already having something that seems real and authentic going strong. this approach takes time to build a real & strong voter base but i think it's amongst the best. very supportive of nouns amigos and the team behind it!
(noun40 voting via agora)
very supportive! we've given out a few nouns via individual props which felt right (we learn by voting) but this is probably a more sustainable and long-term legitimate process.
(noun40 voting via agora)
amongst ALL of the things we've funded so far, nouns esports has the top position in terms of breaking through to the mainstream in an authentic and inspiring way at a massive scale.
over a million ppl concurrently watching TI where the casters were yelling "nouns! nouns!" with noggles showing up all over the game map was one of the coolest / proudest moments ever. ppl really loving and building an emotional connection with the brand, it representing something different and aspirational (transparent, community and athlete centric esports brand), also just achieving something exceptional (highest ranked NA team in the past 4 years in TI). corporations like shopify spend many millions trying to create something like this and it's incredible we're punching above our weight competing better than those teams with a smaller budget. the combo of it all makes me inspired and feeling that nouns can do much more in this world.
yes the budget concerns are real but A) we could keep funding at the current scale if we massively prioritize nouns esports funding over other things (which I wouldn't rule out given my view above that esports has been the best ROI prop vertical so far), B) it looks like nouns esports team is going to seriously explore different revenue streams like brand partnerships and in-game item sales this year so they might be able to cover a decent chunk of operating expenses themselves next year and thus i don't think now is the time to be overly sensitive to the budget. it's still a tight budget compared to their ambitions is my read.
so so excited for what nouns esports can accomplish next year. go nouns esports! make us proud!
(noun40 voting via agora)
while I really appreciate wylin as a long time community member, and clearly they've put a lot of effort evolving the prop, going from 0 to $250k on a prop that has a lot of execution risk as noun12 described feels too much to me.
also, don't want to be too nitpicky but just for future prop writers that might read this, i want to be careful of the overuse of the word public goods. while you can say that you want to make food more accessible or food production more local and ubiquitous, food itself is squarely a private good in the sense that if you consume it then i can't also consume it and while you might be able bring down unit cost there's still a strong relationship between production quantity and cost.
that doesn't mean that we shouldn't fund it. nouns funds charitable causes, like mucho love or the variety children's christmas party event. but i think it's more fair for this to squarely compete in that category and attempt to answer why we should fund this charitable cause over many many things we could be funding.
again appreciative of wylin bringing this prop to the dao.
(noun40 voting via agora)
i think many ppl see nouns gov as this static thing when in reality it's something that moves quite quickly. candidate props, signal votes, forks, propdates, all of these things things didn't exist before v3. it's also not stopping there, the verbs team is soon going to begin work on nouns governor (that will enable things like nft-based delegation, not wallet-based delegation) and we'll need to migrate to that.
let's be clear. nouns.wtf is not being actively maintained (ripe did a great job adding v3 elements and it was critical for the fork mechanism but the candidate stuff doesn't work too well b/c it wasn't really iterated on as ppl started using the candidate stuff). we could find a separate team to pay $400k/year and let them lead nouns.wtf but that's problematic on two fronts a) foundation wants to reduce not increase control over governance infra, b) nouns.wtf as the "official" site has too much political meaning.
i think we've learned a lot funding different gov clients over the years. (my subjective read but it seems like) HoN started to get slowed down on product iteration by emphasizing support of other nouns communities and rocketman seems still very much interested in nouns conceptually but is working on an iteration of the nouns protocol (called revolution?). agora was amazing and i really commend them for launch supporting v3 changes immediately as well but the reality is that optimism, uniswap, ens, are larger daos that collectively take more of their attention and while yitong and charlie still are very much interested in nouns (esp yitong leading the protocol guild x the line animation work) product iteration has slowed considerably. i'd love for the agora team to come back for another round of funding with renewed commitment to accelerated nouns-focused product iteration and further create further alignment on branding but i've hoped for that prop for a while now and i'm not sure if it's coming.
what's unique about camp is that krel started building it out of this frustration. that while there existed some options (an increasingly deprecated "official" client and a slew of other clients that lost focus for one reason or another) none was really actively pushing our world forward (wilson with voter.wtf showed us that a gov client could really push forward gov culture—the vwr culture for example—but that stopped as wilson got busy with base). what's different about camp is that they are 100% focused on nouns and not just meeting the basic requirements focused but rather pushing the boundary focused. I think this is totally worth $400k / year for us.
over time as we experiment with client incentives and tweaking the parameters there I hope we can create a more recorded usage-driven, retro payment-based, market competition-like dynamic for gov client funding but that's not where we are now.
also i get ppl asking for more self-sustainability from different media generating props or props like nouns esports etc but camp is squarely focused on serving nouns gov (and that's their unique superpower we don't want them to lose) and unless we want them to somehow charge the gov participants i think the expectation should be more like gov contractors (companies that build software to run the city government or something like that). self-sustainability doesn't quite make sense here and i'm okay with camp being focused and dependent on nouns and nouns paying them for that focus.
super super excited for what the camp team can deliver with a 12 mo focus on nouns and very grateful that they've made such a (already demonstrated) commitment to do so. go camp!
(noun40 voting via agora)
there hasn't been much iteration since the signal feedback phase which made me hesitate a bit... but ultimately deciding to vote in favor
i want to say that when nouns voters are asking for better design it's not like we're just superficial ppl and only care about what something looks like rather than what it actually is. i feel like the inverse is actually true. ppl that deeply care about what they do care about it to an extent that they put effort into the things that might not seemingly matter as much to others and we're worried that the design presented at the prop voting phase is reflective of eventual substance (execution)
anyways, mucho love wasn't fully baked in the first prop either and this is a strong enough starting point that i'd love to support it and see it happen. thanks for putting forth the prop!
(noun40 voting via agora)
I'm in favor of this much reduced budget v2. we've funded a lot of media and animation that targets ppl new to nouns (atrium movie, stoopid buddy doc, nounish, the recent two animation props, etc) and that should be our focus but i think occasionally making stuff for ourselves even if at the end only a few hundred hard core fans see it is good (esp if the production cost is reasonable). supportive!
(noun40 voting via agora)
outside of the verbs team, wiz has consistently explored and unlocked the most new onchain ground for us ("new maps") and is still going hard with bound.wtf. the provenance of the significant contributions deserves the wizard nouns imo. thank you wiz!
(noun40 voting via agora)
there's a part of me that agrees with krel where i'm not sure if this literal gov client will be used and agree with goldy that attention to art could be better but i do like the mindspace that yungalgo is in and it really does seem that they've gotten pretty deep to the culture and if anything i'd like someone to explore this direction to ignite more ideas about what for example TNS noun o'clock twitter spaces in a spatial game-like setting could be like and for more ppl to start thinking about governance in a playful action rather than a chore. supportive.
(noun40 voting via agora)
the fork mechanism is what enabled the new life and momentum we have here in season 3 and continuing to invest in the onchain substrate that our world is built upon to unlock new potential is one of the highest ROI things we can do imo.
for example the nouns governor will enable single wallets to delegate nouns held in the wallet with granularity and will enable a lot more fluid delegation. delegation has been one of the best ways to onboard more ppl to nouns governance and it could really flourish in the nouns governor world. client incentives are also an important piece of how we can drive resource allocation to public goods in our world based on usage (and can compliment our current just pure prop voting based funding decision making)
really excited for these things to come to life and there's honestly no one better than the verbs team to lead this effort. grateful for them dedicating their work lives with nouns.
(noun40 voting via agora)
i don’t understand disagree with most of the opposing votes. noun12 is voting against the current implementation it seems(takes voter attention, not value accretive to dao). both of those points are addressed in v2 (permissionless, has a fee).
9999 focuses on fungibility but i personally don’t think something like the redemption token makes treasury nouns fungible at all. it’s actually something super needed for example for The Prop Awards i’d love to advocate for the dao. so let’s say quarterly we want to vote for the top 2 props and the winning prop builders get a noun and some eth. in this context, because we don’t know apriori who the winners are going to be we can’t actually give them a noun they would actually want. this problem exists for nouner scout as well! it’s a real problem. we want a way to give ppl (that we think are deserving) a way to “pick the noun you want”. creating a way to give ppl the right to pick does NOT make nouns more fungible imo. i also don’t think swaps with a decent fee make nouns fungible either. if i sell my nouns on opensea and buy a different noun there that doesn’t require you posting a personal values based approval request to the dao and that trading ability on the secondary market doesn’t make nouns fungible.
krel’s point is around the fact that the two props didn’t pass so like did they deliver utility why the retro. but i really feel differently here. we voted the props down bc we didn’t like this version of nounswap and presumably didn’t want to encourage a dozen more props like them. but clearly there is demand to trade for treasury nouns. clearly it is getting interest from the broader community as well on twitter and on farc. they also ignited this conversation as well which is all real value. this team just saw a tweet from toady describing a real need and got a lot of encouragement to build this thing and built a thing that works. i think it absolutely deserves a retro and should get more funding from us if we want v2 to be built and i think we do!
very much in favor of the team continuing to build nounswap towards v2 and i think it would benefit us a lot (not just in the redemption token usefulness mentioned above but also in the sense that it can pull forward a lot of forever noun buying demand into the present moment by allowing treasury nouns to be bought for an added fee)
(noun40 voting via agora)
clearly a lot of effort has been put into making an actual teaser and preparing this prop and if us funding the pilot can lead to an acquisition and further funding by a broadcaster/streaming company to make the full series made as the team expects then would have bene be a very efficient use of funds and a bet worth taking! make us proud
(noun40 voting via agora)
this prop doesn't seem coherent to me. what does the MVP app do besides you being able to scan barcodes and check off nouns you found? in what way does that teach educational key web 3 concepts to kids? the app has 0 reviews. i just don't know how this (at least as written and explained) has some claim at being an educational success MVP with kids and something we want to amplify. appreciate the prop but this doesn't pass the bar for me.
(noun40 voting via agora)
I don't think allowing ppl to pick a noun from our treasury that they like makes nouns fungible!
I agree with three issues with the current implementation but they all feel workable (and are noted as planned improvements in v2 according to prop 457):
- swaps shouldn't create props (voting fatigue is real). we should vote on gifting nouns but not on swaps or redemptions.
- swaps shouldn't be free: i would likely be comfortable with a 5% ish fee so that ppl don't take it too lightly (this is a configurable param in v2 plans)
- swaps shouldn't be for all nouns in treasury: let's leave the lower id ones off the table (I'd be supportive of only exposing later half of our treasury nouns).
but if the swaps don't create voting props, has a fee applied, and can't touch half of the lower ID nouns in treasury, then I feel like this is something we should be excited about.
why? well, it allows to direct more of the organic forever noun buying energy to the current auction. yes, it makes the currently sold noun a bit more of a redemption token but A) it's still available for someone else to swap for as their forever noun in the future, B) if in the current auction someone really wants the noun they can outbid the buyers that are trying to buy the noun to swap for another noun so doesn't block that intention either (just makes it more expensive to win the auction b/c more competition).
ultimately, i think the net effect is not that nouns become more fungible but rather that we make choosing forever nouns for ppl easier and at the same time increase the present day auction price by having the person that wants the present noun compete with everyone that wants one of the treasury nouns available (above the noun ID that we exclude). that feels really good to me! one of the core things we need right now is to induce more present day auction demand from organic buyers. ppl that want one of the treasury nouns while willing to pay (let's say) a 5% fee almost explicitly is a non arber an is an organic nouns art enjoyoor b/c if they are an arber then all nouns are fungible to them why pay a fee to swap for a treasury noun? so like ironically ppl that pay a fee to swap for a treasury noun are almost demonstrating onchain that they don't see nouns as fungible and they prefer the art of a particular noun.
so while I'm not entirely in favor of v1 i'm voting in favor here to signal that i'm very supportive of the v2 and that the paperclip team shouldn't be too discouraged of the against votes here! (and in the off chance this passes, i'm happy for wizardo to get a clean wizard head noun)
(noun40 voting via agora)
to be honest i'm a little underwhelmed as to how much nouns whisky added to the our provenance (our meme) online and onchain. i understand that whisky sales takes time but it's not just about the sales (we're not a traditional business just looking for sales returns, we're looking for attention returns).
also it might just be me but i haven't seen the proposer active within our community and when prop builders don't seem to be active fans i'm a little less inclined to take the continued risk (esp when previous execution results are pending or lackluster)